The lawmaker representing Kabba/Bunu Ijumu Federal constituency, in the ninth assembly, Hon. Tajudeen Yusuf, and the Peoples Democratic Party(PDP) senatorial candidate for Kogi State in the 2023 elections, in this interview speaks on his 12 years as a lawmaker among other issues.
What’s your assessment of the 2023 general elections especially as regards your election in Kogi State?
The 2023 election was a bag of mixed porridge. You have positives and negatives. The first thing is that election is not just what happens on election day. It is a process. So the Electoral Act that was not signed in 2019 came to life for the 2023 election. So that sort of gave hope. I was a member of the House Committee on electoral matters and I was part of the whole effort. There were a lot of challenges; people deliberately didn’t want us to move away from where we are.
I remember I was telling one of the committee members that Senegal conducted an election without declaring a public holiday. People went to work, schools were opened because it was electronically conducted. Are we saying that the literacy level in Senegal is higher than that of Nigeria? Because the argument is that our people are illiterate, how do we go about it? But I see it as politicians who deliberately want to keep us down so as to use the system for their own nefarious activities.
So the Electoral Act came to be though not 100 percent what we wanted but we got a step in that direction and so that gave hope and INEC gave a lot of hope. But unfortunately, INEC failed in one of its fundamental responsibilities or promises it made to transmit results real time for people to access. So that gave a lot of doubt. You know perception is reality, and so some people perceived that this was not being done correctly.
As for my own election in Kogi, initially the first few hours people were conscious and tried to comply with the rule. But when they noticed that it could be manipulated, they went haywire.
The challenge we have in Nigeria is not about lack of laws, it’s about the laws being implemented and people adhering to it. Until we begin to punish offenders who break those rules, things will remain the same. So those who obey the rules are seen as fools, while those who disobey the rules are victorious, and they’re given awards.
My election was technically manipulated. So it takes a lot of eagle eyes to look at it. People wanted to underestimate the Electoral Act because of ‘order from above’. I don’t want to go into details because we are at the Tribunal. Overall on the elections, I can say that we have moved a bit forward although not the way we would have loved but is an improvement.
What has been your experience in representing your constituency for the past 12 years?
First of all, I must give thanks to God for the privilege. My experience has been good, bad, and ugly. But overall I must say thank God for the experience. I went in with a lot of expectations, hopes, and ideas. And the zeal propelled me so much that in my first three years, I was everywhere but I realised that there are certain very fundamentals that must be in place before you can have the representation of the idea, that is the ideal. Because in my own estimation I didn’t meet my own expectations.
First of all, the expectations of our people are not real. They don’t know the role of a legislator. The long term of military rule before civilian rule created the mentality that when you are in the legislature, you must be doing certain things forgetting the office you occupy. So a legislator is expected to behave like the executive. You give scholarships, tar the road, give pipe borne water and what have you. Yes, even in America you have what is called a Pork Barrel that gives the legislators the privilege of putting some projects, but the people understand the limitations of the legislature. For instance in my place, people can just wake up and show one road and put my picture behind it and say look at wasted years. So they assume it is my responsibility to fix that road.
When I got into the House, it was an aberration to bring a motion that a road should be tarred; it is seen as infrastructure leadership and should come from the executive. But now it has been watered down, people bring motion for roads to be fixed, people bring bills to set up university. But when I got in there that was not the tradition.
Two, the system punishes good behaviour and rewards bad behaviour. The people assume wrongly, that legislators are given money for constituency projects. You are not given money, you are told that for your constituency, there’s zonal intervention fund to make you have impact. And there’s so and so amount for your constituency and they will now give you a shopping list for example transformer, they will put the cost and put the MDAs you have to put in. So yours is for you to nominate the project and the location and there’s limitation but people assumed they give you the money.
Whoever accesses the money is a fraud because it means you must have connived with civil servants and got them to award the contract to you. So people now use that to benchmark everyone. Meanwhile, it’s possible that that man accessed that money because he was able to cut deals and then he comes home and lavishes money everywhere and he is seen as the good guy. While you who want to play by the rules is seen as the bad guy or the non-performing guy because in the real sense of the word, if the money is given to me, I will do more than what’s being done. Because government’s contracts are inbuilt with lots of profit margin for contractors. For instance, a transformer that I can get for like N5 million, N6 million are going for N15 million. If I was given N15 million, I would have bought a transformer and kept the difference. So people don’t understand that. They see N15 million and assume it’s yours.
So my experience has been my struggling with my ideals and my ideas and being confronted with reality. I don’t believe in giving motorcycles as empowerment but believe you me, I was forced to start giving out motorcycles so as not to lose the people who don’t understand my intentions. What we call empowerment is sharing motorcycles and what have you. So I had to have a balance of sticking to bringing tangible developmental projects, renovations of schools, building new classrooms, doing roads and what have you, and doing the so called empowerment so that I will not lose being in touch with the people. So, I learnt that.
Secondly, in interacting with other parliamentarians, I realised that the system is not well prepared to help parliamentarians bear the cutting edge of their responsibility. You can’t give what you don’t have. So a lot of us came in and met a system that does whatever you decide. I know that in other climes, the system works. For instance, in America there’s a dress code for the president. The colour of shirt he can wear a tie with a particular colour on and so forth. So I believe that for us to have an enduring legacy, you must have such a system but we don’t really have it. So anybody that comes in, just tries to behave within the limited knowledge he has.
So, I think the parliamentarians need to have a lot of resource persons and to have a structure that when you come in, you are tutored, you are brought to speed. You cannot know everything. The fact that you are a parliamentarian doesn’t mean you know medicine etc but you need resource persons who will feed you with the right information, so that when you are making comments or contributions, you are speaking from the position of knowledge. So that it doesn’t rob the country of valuable input that would have come from there.
Are you saying given another chance, there are things you would have done differently?
Yes. I would have done some things differently and would have insisted and focused more on developmental projects and not compromise into doing those empowerment projects. Yes, it is possible I would have lost the election but I would have satisfied my conscience. But the pressure was so much that I caved in and I joined in giving those things. I feel if I had my way, I would eradicate those things. If I have my way I will even take a pause that the country should reevaluate members’ projects because MDAs deliberately make it impossible to actualise them.
For instance, if you have a 10 kilometer road you want to do, it is going to cost you about N500 million. But because what you’re entitled to in the budget is small, you put N100 million per annum. So for the first year you put N100 million, they will take VAT, tax, management fee. So out of that money, you have 23.5 percent taken as tax and management fee remaining over 70 percent and then there will be another inbuilt profit for the contractor which is about 30 percent. So about 52 percent of that N100 million has gone. What will come to the project is over 40 percent and to the people outside, they will say look at the kind of work they have done with N100 million. Can you imagine? He has embezzled the money.
So, I keep saying that MDAs have overhead, there’s a budget for them every year, so why do you take money from every project as management fee and that’s done across board. So that limits the effect and the impact of the project on the citizens.
So if I have my way, I will take it off but if I can’t take it off, then it shouldn’t be taken to the legislature again because it simply means we have no input. Rather than my constituency seeing N20 million for a project only to get there and find out that the project is just N7 million and then they will assume that I have stolen the money, meanwhile it’s the system that has stolen the money.
The 9th Assembly was seen as a rubber stamp of the executive. In terms of performance and holding the executive to account, how will you rate the 9th assembly?
I will give a pass to the 9th assembly. When I mean pass I don’t know the pass mark for the present O’Level WAEC; in my time, pass was 40 prcent. To some extent, the 9th Assembly knowingly or unknowingly earned itself as the rubber stamp of the executive. They’re certain things that have been questioned. So even if you do more goods, it is that one error that people will remember.
Let me give you an example, there was a time I was challenging some of the loans that were being taken. There was a loan of $500 million for NTA and I asked, why are we taking loan for NTA? If the NTA you have now is not commercially viable, must you have stations across the country and paying staff and all? Why can’t you have two or three stations and then transmit via satellite to everywhere? I said it’s not prudent.
So the manner in which the leadership of the National Assembly emerged already compromises the system. It’s not wrong for the executive to have input in who emerges as the Speaker; I am not one of those that bothers about such things but it should not be obviously done. Even when you are the best hand, the fact that the executive is obviously backing you will make people see you in a different light. For instance, Femi Gbajabiamila was evidently qualified to be the Speaker but because of the fact that the executive blatantly showed its hand in his emergence, he lost some of us not because he’s not competent but because we wanted an independent House that was different. So I didn’t support him because of that. But I could be wrong about that because sincerely, he is very qualified.
So in terms of output, in terms of motion, bills, the 9th assembly was fantastic, but in terms of being able to put the executive on their toes, we failed in the 9th assembly.
So that has dovetailed to the 10th assembly. The executive clearly had a hand in the emergence of the leadership of the 10th assembly…
Like I said, I am not saying they shouldn’t have a hand but it should not be too obvious. For instance, in the Senate even though the executive had a hand, it was a battle. Akpabio didn’t just emerge, they worked their tail for it. So I want a National Assembly where members feel ownership of the leadership, where the leadership feels that they own that seat to their colleagues. The moment they feel somebody somewhere can protect me, it takes away all the independence of the legislature.
The crafter of our democracy deliberately wanted some degree of independence, yes they must work together but there must be some degree of checks and balances. In our O’Levels, we learnt that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So if you do not have somebody to check you, it’s only natural that you will become dictatorial. Let me give an example. I happen to be involved in the Christian Legislature Fellowship in the National Assembly. At a point I was the House of Reps coordinator, later I became the Secretary General. That is after the President of the fellowship, I am the next in the echelon of leadership. We were going to open an account and I said no, I won’t be a signatory to the account. The president signs and approves. Two members of the fellowship, one from the Senate, one from House of reps will sign the cheque while I will receive alerts.
The cheque books are with me. I cannot take the cheque book to the bank to withdraw and any cheque signed must be approved by the president that this expenditure is approved. I will now write the memo. So it’s deliberate to help us not to abuse the office. That’s why you see separation of powers of the executive, legislature and the judiciary as crafted by the constitution. Because human beings naturally tend not to want anybody to question our authority especially when we love so much title in this clime.
So I know this current speaker reasonably, we got to the House together. He is deep, he is a sound legislator. I pray he will be able to navigate through those cutting edges.
Nigerians are unhappy with the way and manner the fuel subsidy was removed even though they knew it was going to go. And again, the speaker just appointed 33 aides and Nigerians are asking why you want us to sacrifice but you are unwilling to sacrifice. How do you react to that?
First of all, we must deliberately seek knowledge. At times we criticise without checking whether it is relevant or not. Hillary Clinton as a Senator had 105 legislative aides. Democracy is expensive. The Speaker of the House of Representatives announced his own and that is why you’ve heard, others who didn’t announce have more than 33. So because he wants to be transparent he appointed very dedicated men that will remind him that you’re going this way, no this is what you should do. You have people who specialised in every aspect. In other climes, America we often refer to but even in Kenya, they have a reservoir of those who are knowledgeable in medical, engineering, ICT and what have you. So when a bill in that area comes apart from experts from outside who will come in, you need somebody from the inside who is in tune, who has an idea that will guide you. It looks as if I am defending him but I don’t know, except we will find people who volunteer their services, willing to work pro bono. I don’t see anything wrong with his number of aides. I am aware that he cut their salaries in order to spread it among them.
As per the government’s fuel subsidy policy and what have you, yes, there are policies we knew before now that will not continue. We know there is no subsidy in the 2023 budget. But I think it’s unfortunate that we play politics a lot with issues that we shouldn’t play politics with. This same party the APC was at the forefront of the protests against Jonathan’s removal of fuel subsidy. So what has changed now?
I remember I was involved then, I moved a motion on subsidy. I was emphasising then as an economist that, I am not against subsidy removal but the process and what should be done. No nation subsidises consumption and gets a headway. You subsidise production. In America food is subsidised, the things they buy are reasonably cheap. So what you lost paying for fuel, you get back in free education, cheap food, and what have you.
So I was expecting that they would do certain things first. First of all, take the first six months and tell Innoson Motors and what have you, get a 1000 or 1500 vehicles available and distribute across states. Because countries you have these high prices we are quoting there are alternatives. If you are going somewhere in those countries, there is a bus that comes every 15 minutes, you have to walk to the bus stop to take the bus. Two, they have trains and then they have cabs. So a bus might take, let’s say N1000 for a journey that a train will take maybe N2,500 and then a cab will take N10,000.
So, it’s your choice. But we don’t have that privilege yet. That’s my concern. And we are people who take advantage of ourselves. Things that we should all sit down and say it’s a common national challenge, we should fix. Somebody told me that there’s a special bread they bought before at N2,500 which is now 6000. I’m not sure it was the fuel subsidy removal, but people took advantage of that. So I feel the government should at least have sat down and provide the palliative before implementation.
You know there is this virtue of a leader that our past leaders got that we seem to have misplaced and that is courage. Courage is not an absence of empathy, and proper planning. Some people want you to show courage, they claimed Jonathan did not show courage and that’s why they took that decision. Well, he has taken the decision and I don’t want him to reverse it. But you must consciously know that people are already suffering and they are enduring it.
It will be good if they get the next six months right, get some positive things done that will kind of reduce the pain because as we know, it is impossible for things to go up in Nigeria and come down. It will earn the government a lot of mileage if things can come down.
Let’s talk about the PDP and its crisis. A lot of people feel the crisis between Wike and Atiku led to PDP losing the 2023 elections. The crisis has continued even after the election. How can this be resolved?
First of all, yes the crisis between the G5 governors and Atiku contributed to our misfortune politically. I feel Peter Obi too is part of it. I think PDP went into the election with the strategy tailored to fail. With Obi out, Wike out, I told some people that Tinubu had a minority vote in victory. Imagine Obi, Atiku votes and even Kwakwanso, who are all past members of the PDP. So, it shows failure. They refused to see the global picture. Everybody held onto his own mountain and wanted to lord his idea over everyone. I think we failed in that responsibility as well. So we got what we bargained for. That’s my opinion. We did not do enough.
Iyorchia Ayu is no more there now, has heaven fallen? Why would you not sacrifice him for the election? Again, I think ego didn’t let us see the enormous power of the president. If I remove the party chairman, can’t I return him when I win the election?
The president is being hailed for all his decisions in his first three weeks in office. What do you think?
First of all, hailing the president for taking decisions, it shows you how low we have fallen. These are normal things that the president is expected to do whether it is in appointments or what have you. But because we had a president who took six months to make certain appointments, it became something to celebrate.
On Emefiele’s Naira redesign policy which he undertook while at the CBN, it cost a lot of dislocation and people were not happy. Apart from that, I am not opposed to that Naria redesign policy, there is too much money in circulation in Nigeria. In other climes, certain things are reported to the authority because there is alert in the system that naturally flags off certain transactions. There is a lot of cash outside the bank in Nigeria and we should genuinely want to scale it down. There is no country without corruption. Human beings naturally want to take advantage of loopholes but because the system has checks we must reduce the number of cash transactions we do in Nigeria.
People say we’re not there yet. There’s POS everywhere in the world but in our case, the POS operators took advantage of that and were charging exorbitant prices. So I think it should be reworked, reintroduced and we grow unto it. To me, that is the best way to go about it.
So what’s next for you?
For now, I am trusting God. I am back to my business, which is real estate. I’m on the streets. I’m in court trusting God that the outcome will be in my favour. So now is the time to sit down and look at the areas I’ve not done well and if I have the opportunity, I will improve on them.
(PUNCH)
